Talk:TingWiki/ting27
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[edit] ting27, sunday, 22nd of May 2005, 18:00 UTC (20:00 CEST)
See the article page for the ting27_document text-inclusion please.
from server: is-root.de, port: 32123
the plain text page used for the inclusion is http://is-root.de/moonedit/ting27_talk
see also Wiki-Woodstock
[edit] ting27_talk moon-edit page inclusion
ting27_talk
the thursday 19th ting-session had to be dropped. the disk of the server had only 51 MB free space left. By midnight mutante had it running again. See you on ting27 sunday 22nd of May, 18:00 UTC.
SUNDAY 2005-05-22, 18:00 UTC
Participants:
* lk: LionKimbro
* ma: MattisManzel
: ''Hmm... Looks like no one's here...''
Agenda:
* WikiWoodstock
** Intro paragraph - Lion
** Logo status - Lion
** one day, for first one? - Lion
*** smaller commitment, easier to make, first time - Lion
** CommunityWiki:RecentChanges - Lion
** Initial Sessions Table
ma: hi lion, sry late, forgot watching news about the German local elections in tv (shame to waste time like that) ;) - (tho only 10 minutes late)
Sunday morning, eh?
In your place.
It's evening here.
We forgot about that when setting up schedules. UTC, CEST, PST?
Propose: All hours are UTC. On the schedule page there should be a nice table to figure out your local time.
People gotta get used to that. We are talking world and not peanuts.
...
Know, it's a bit of a drawback, I was late and nobody else is around. But I will not reduce stteam-pressure. Something like wiki-Woodstock is exactly (in words e x a c t l y) right. Maybe the words are thosen not cleverly enough, possible, but the intention, the one to get us off our asses, is what it needs and something tells me that what we are doing, many of us, but you you in an especcially remarkable way, k , I try to do my part too, - this will be remembered and respected. I have no idea how I can be so sure but I am. It's strange.
What about
"the sum of happiness in the universe is constant"
imessureable anyhow, you say? Right, but imagine. Imagine you could measure the position of the electon without - by measuring it - change it's position.
What I mean. I sense an absolute certainty about the fact that the 300 bar steam pressure we pump into the community, into the communities, into the hive-mind has an effect. Not any weird effect but something like "when you pull the plug in a sink the water will run down the drain."
ma: nice you're back, Just thought I fucked it all up. But a little fear make me poetic sometimes, ok.
lk: Nah, nah, not at all. {:)}= It's just that it takes a lot of energy for people to meet at a specific time, specific place, etc.,. I don't think anyone else dropped in either. {:)}= Okay! {;D}=
lk: So, I'm thinking now- I drew up an agenda, but I think we should defer it for next week. There was one thing I wanted to talk with you specificly about-
lk: I'm worried that having moved the building from CW, it doesn't have the exposure that it had on CW RecentChanges. Perhaps we should move to include it's RecentChanges into CW's RecentChanges, at least for the short term, until WikiWoodstock is over.
ma: I feel, if you'd brush a little over wiki-Woodstock, set some essential things rigght, it might already be presentable.
lk: Okay, we can do that. I have a meeting I have to attend in about 15 minutes. But, I think we should look over the Wiki-Woodstock together at, say, er, I mean: an hour after this hour is up. {:)}=
ma: I blew some exposure for us by taking it off cw so fast, I know. I just can't go ahead if it's not a real wiki. You can't see what's missing really. I work more freely in it, not caring for if it's a minor or major change. That does speed up a good bit.
lk: Oh, you mean- if it's not on CW?
lk: I'm thinking, nobody will mind on CW. I think we should propose on CW merging the RecentChanges together-- all we have to do is link the RSS from the CW RecentChanges RSS list, and it should just work.
merging rc's is a good idea. Or including it in the recent near changes. There is where the future is hidden anyhow.
LK: Yeah, ... I never look at the near changes list, I'd rather put it in RC. But, yeah.
ma: you never look at them as they are not our common focus. The voting on micocontributions for neighbors, ranked by votes.
lk: Yep. Not part of our SharedAwarenessSystem.
lk: Another thing I was wondering: Perhaps we should make the first just 1 day only? I think that would make it easier for people to commit to comming, and, we must admit: This is all very experimental..!
s: can someone tell me how to delete a file on this server?
ma: yippieh moony! He/she informed me about podcasting these days.
lk: s, I'm not sure how.
s: podcasting rockx
s: so... who runs this server?
ma: I read a bit about it. It seems if we'd get a bit more audio in wiki-Woodstock, skype conference, prepared lectures to be live commented, podcasting could be of great help for distributing that (not real-time, but soon after)
lk: s, I don't know.
s: does mattis know?
lk: {:)}= We'll find out in a second, methinks. {:)}=
s: yeah.. i'm sure :)
s: sorry for mentioning MSN... but anyone in for a game of checkers on MSN version 7?
lol.
lk: Sorry, not myself.
s: np
lk: Mattis: Skype would rock, TeamSpeak too. Recording it all and casting it later might also be of interest to people, since the conversation will be focused on whatever particular topic a room chooses.
s: exactly. one could edit together the best passages of a skype meeting, wrap it in RSS enclosures and upload it in a webpage for others to fetch with their podcatchers.
... ipodder, for example.
ma: one thing sun_moon. As far as I know there is no way to delete stuff, exept you write a very friendly email to mutante. It is not our interst to delete. Remove history is disabled as far as I know. Too many idiots in the beginning tried it out.
lk: One thing you could do, s, is delete all the contents of a page, exit, re-enter, and tell it to remove history. The page will still be there, but it won't have any trace of content.
s: ok. lol. aren't we all "idiots" in the beginning? hehe...
ma: we are. Anyhow. Can podcasting be used in wiki-Woodstock context, how?
s: we all have our levels of ignorance to overcome - on a daily basis even. this is
a fast moving world.
lk: We'd need some way of recording sessions from Skype. (Or Teamspeak.) Then we just package up the files in RSS or whatever it is, and people can pull them down. To be honest, I haven't done anything with Podcasting before, though. I don't know what software pulls them down, or whate'er.
ma: I was jamming with some guys on skype a couple of month ago, they sent me the .mp3 file a day later. They also wrot a little program , metronome synched with atom-clock (60 bpm only for now), blink or click to have a synced click for all. Playing works fine without, I think.
s: well... i havent really put the tools to work for myself yet, but as far as i know: all you need is webspace and the programm called podifier to wrap the audio created with audacity.
lk: How do people automatically retrieve the sound files? Is it a special feature of some aggregators, or..?
ma: me know neither not'ing 'bout podcasting, started today to look after it.
s: pod-catching clients like ipodder are the podcast aggregators that automatically detect and download new audio content on a homepage. they then export the audio directly to a audio player (like itunes), so the file automatically appears in the playlist after downloading it.
lk: My understanding is that people download their podcasts for the day(s) all at once, and then listen to them whenever, perhaps on their iPod, laptop, whatever.
s: that's correct. that's the nice thing about podcasts. you can listen to them whenever you please and are not confined to certain broadcast times.
ma: it works with rss. the .mp3 and an rss go together.
lk: Yeah, they basically stuff a sound file into an RSS file.
ma: feels like it would be supereasy to integrate in existing wiki rss structures.
lk: Looking up [http://www.ipodder.org/ iPodder.] [http://www.ipodder.org/whatIsPodcasting What is Podcasting?] [http://www.ipodder.org/directory/4/ipodderSoftware Software.]
ma: adding audio comment to a page, and comments to comments. Sounds like voice to text would become important then, and that is a weak point. many peaople can much easier work collaboratively on a text than on a colletion of audio files.
lk: There we go. Get some electricity in this laptop. Yeah, voice-to-text is going to be huge.
lk: I really want some Internet-based voice mail. Every time I have to call up someone's answering machine to respond to a message that they just left in my message box, I go "ARRRGH!" "Why can't I just say: 'reply'..?!?"
s: or see who called in your browser and click on their number...
my voice-over-ip provider has this feature.
s: i know what you mean... mine has a really loose contact, so i sometimes don't realize that the power is not connected and suddenly... *blackscreen*.
lk: Sun Moon, are you a wiki person?
lk: Do you use wiki?
s: nope.
ma: but helpful. :)
s: i understand that the whole wiki hype is practically the "manila" webserver
applied to the wide and interesting topic of collaboratively writing an online encyclopedia. (this is the aim of wikipedia, at least)
ma: lion, give wiki-Woodstock a brush, make it look more professional, the tech-section, so it doesn't look like an idea of two non-techs, who do not know how to get it going (me and xtof). That's enough to make it presentable. The rest is just continuing.
s: you should dig into manila. it enables anyone to edit homepages - without the slightest idea about html. just click on "edit this page" in the editors mode and voila.
ma: manila.
lk: [http://manila.userland.com/ Manila?] Costing $1,000?
lk: I don't understand why we would get into Manila, rather than wiki.
ma: costs? Forget it c o m l e t e l y !
s: i am just saying that i know what manila is. and that is am assuming that wiki is
a similar thing. just that one does not have full control over the server.
the wiki admins probably authorize guys like you and me to edit pages - or they allow anyone to do it. (which would suck, lol. i don't want some goon deleting or editing my
well researched article(s), lol.)
lk: The core thing about Wiki isn't about writing an encyclopedia; It's about refining content, LinkLanguage, keeping conversations consolidated (rather than sprawling and repeating,) etc., etc.,.
ma: making people think wiki is an encyclopedia is one of the most serious dammages wikipedia did to wikilandia. It will continue for generations to distort it all.
lk: s, in wiki, whoever runs the server, has full control over the server.
lk: [http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiPediaIsNotTypical Wikipedia is not typical.]
lk: Wait, Sun Moon, we've allowed anyone to edit on CommunityWiki, for like, ''years.'' I don't think we've once had any problem with people coming in. And if they ''did'' come in, we'd just revert what they did. Check out our wiki http://communitywiki.org/
ma: most people are 5 times as paranoid as it would be useful.
lk: Well- anyways. Sun, I'd just encourage you to check out our wiki. It's been perfectly fine. We've been using it for several years now, I think. Same with the Emacs wiki, which has been around for, what, 5 years now? These problems have never been problems, for us. Ward's wiki is the only one, I think, which has been because it only keeps a history of length 1. Wikipedia has it's own problems, but Wikipedia is not typical. It's a very unique wiki.
ma: right, sorry. Check our wiki.
s: ok. thanks for all your input.
lk: I guess, the core thing that's frustrating for me about thread-mode places, is seeing conversations repeat a lot, being unable to rework conversation into a nice short explanation, stuff like that.
lk: I'm working on a project called "Local Names." We're trying to make it so that you can sort of get the best of both worlds. Well, it just has to do with the hyper-linking aspect, only, but that's part of it. We'd like to be able to name web pages, and refer to them just by the [[link text]], have it automatically link, regardless of the medium that you're in. If you're in MoonEdit, and you say [[slashdot]], we'd like that text to automatically link to http://www.slashdot.org/ . If we say, [[Wikipedia is not typical]], we'd like that text to automatically link to the MEatball page on Wikipedia not being typical. (It's title is "Wikipedia is not typical," and that's how it knows to go there.)
s: i mentioned this to mattis the other day already, but i feel like saying it again right here.... i wrote a little webpage about how to set up moonedit and uploaded it to
www.aquapot.de
i hope you forgive the horribly uncreative design, but this is actually my first attempt at messing with html. infact i more or less worte it in the mooneditor and hit the "export to html button". ok... i removed some code to make it less cumbersome...
ma: sometimes better mention things twice to me ;)
lk: Oh, I see it. :) Gah, it's fine. It is readable, if you understand German. {;D}=
lk: I should go, I have some obligations, ...
ma: good ting, cu lion.
s: lion, the first line says "English HERE", lol.
how could you miss that? :)
lk: We can finish up later.
lk: Ah, I see. {:)}= I think it was the border, or something. My eyes lept inside the border, because I wasn't interested in page navigation stuff, or something. I guess. {;)}=
lk: I need to go, though, I have some things to write, and some phone calls to make. Mattis, do you want to go over the site with me later today? Oh wait, it's night for you. Argh. {;D}= I'll see what I can do. I'll look over it.
ma: I might be adressabele more or less for some hours still ;)
lk: One big thing, mattis: How do you feel about making it one day only? (okay) I'm thinking, for short notice, first time, not sure how to do it- that one day would be a lot easier both on us, and on the participants.
ma: what is "geek", is that ok for us? i thinks so for as far as I read about it (the french wikipedia article about it is far more develloped than the German and the English too btw)
I met a turkish women from NY last summer, I told her 'bout me. - "You're one of these geeks?"
I hadn't heard about it really then.
s: a geek is a techie type of person. a nerd/egghead... haha.
ma: there are food-geeks. Seems like there is a chance to contribute shaping this image.
lk: 1990's: "nerd" 2000's: "geek", and it became more than just computers & D&D=???
s: so it's a staple now for excessive individuals in general?
ma: the geeks' repetitive online-happensing for everybody - grammatical and political correct? ;)
s: i don't consider myself a geek at all. i more or less follow the developements in the tech-world because i find it interesting... but geeks are the ones who develop all the cool stuff. ppl like myself are referred to by geeks as "DAU" in german ("dümmster anzunehmender user") - dumbest possible user, lol. and they keep people like me in mind when creating new software, or they should at least. i am afraid that tom wrote this editor basically for geeks and that this is the reason why there are only 3 people on this whole server righ now. too bad - it is such a neat programme.
ma: you might be right, but to consist here you have to show some optimism, some of the "ok-I-want-to-get-it-going"-optimismn. By being with it here you do, agree. "Such a neat program".
s: i don't really know how i ended up here, lol. oh... yeah, now i remember: it was a hint i got from a tech podcast i listened to called "MacCast" . all the newest mac developments are discussed there. so i heard them talk about SubEthaEdit, a programme that works just like MoonEdit, but on the Mac. obviously it looks a lot slicker and cooler, but there is no windows version. so i googled and found moonedit.
podcasts really help to broaden ones horizon - and it is a lot easier on the eyes than gazing at a compute-screen the whole time.
talking about gazing at a comp screen... visit this page
http://www.jackjohnsonmusic.com/main.asp?page=music.asp?Navid=7
be sure to have your speakers on.
really good guitar music. i love it.
this is the correct link that automatically starts with the music.
ma: we met on welcome, talked about podcasting, I told you 'bout tonights ting and here you are. Easy.
no pasting into moon-edit (SUCKS ATLANTIS!)
s: i know where we "met". so how whaere's noting
t do you think of jack johnson?
ma: listening to the music
the intro is especially nice. "welcome everybody, who wanna take a look around... don't sit in front of your computer screens too long,
it really might get you down..."
ma: they' allright :) Online-lyrics - good for foreign listers
s: why for foreign listeners?
oh... ok. i get it. me swiss.
ma: me German. Ah, ja kannste 'Deutsch'?
s: natuerlich. was dachtest du denn? italienisch? franzoesisch...? kann ich auch ein wenig.
ma: Ihr habt's so reich in Schwitzerland.
wadde mal...
der lebensstandard ist schon enorm hoch. irgendwie krass zu sehen wie das vorhandensein von geld
sich allerorts manifestiert. sogar die sog. "niederen sozialen schichten" (von der bildung her und so) haben stil und
geschmack wie nur selten in deutschland anzutreffen. gerade was kleidung betrifft :)
ma: meine reich an Sprachen.
s: ach so. das stimmt auch, ja.
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3492275079/qid%3D1116792620/028-3822610-7951741
ma: Lion meinte schau dir mal community-wiki an. ich selbst bin u.a. auf s23-wiki zu Gange. Flinke sind da immer willkommen. So von wegen weiterer Kontakte ... nix email, wir sind da. Im offenen Raum. Hose runter.
Der song ist gut! Manchmal wuerd ich mir wuenschen sie achteten weniger auf den Lack. Aber ok.
s: eben. gute erdige gitarren mukke. ach, du meinst, die achten auf den lack? hm. fand ich nicht.
ma:
there's nothing
in between
what we are
what we seem
Man geht mit den Saiten schonend um, sollen 'ne Weile halten, schonn.
is halt eher ne "low" stimmungs band - keine aggro band. wer aggro man,
wird jack johnson sicher nicht moegen.
s: falls ich mir den manila server holen sollte, werde ich dir editier rechte geben :)
scheint ne klasse sache zu sein - userland manila.
ma: no idea yet. editierrechte sind selbstverstaendlich auf wiki.
s: finde ich nicht. ich moechte ja nicht irgendwen in meinem blog haben, bei manila. weil das dann meine private
seite ist.
ma: weil du allein ueberfordert bist. Deshalb auch wiki statt blog.
Versteh' nicht und lausche der musik, sry.
Ich hab 15 wikis gestartet und hab' ein persoenliches - keine Probleme
Wie man auf ein blog schreibt hab' ich immer noch nicht begriffen.
"Ich geh' doch nicht mit 'ner aldi tuete zum KGB 'rueber? Wie sieht denn das aus?"
s: n.p.
??? jack johnsonnnnnnnn!!!! :)
schon mal F12 ausprobiert? und dann in der vorschau am linken rand mit der maus irgendwo rein klicken,
mit pfeiltaste ganz hoch scrollen, und dann wieder F12? saubere sache.
